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New License, buy a retractable?

gallois wrote:

I have a problem with buying a plane based on a mission.

And directly thereafter you defined your own mission very well. “Mission” is not necessarily about a “typical route”, though it might be.

Mission is, for example:

Do I have to fly fast? What is fast for me?
Is it all for me about “arriving” or “flying”?
What distances do I need/want to cover without fuel stop?
What load do I have to carry, am I O.K. to leave behind fuel for payload?
IFR/VFR?
What airstrips am I going to / or operating from?

Now add in a percent ratio. If you want to go IFR, but don’t need a dispatch rate of 100%, you can go any cheaper with the aircraft the lower you can set the dispatch rate – but might be restricted to not flying a specific day, but a day before or after. The same goes for any other item. The more items you pass saying “it’s not all too important” the cheaper you can buy and operate. You can find a load hauler like the PA32, or a slick and fast one like the Mooney or one of the new composite-built aircraft, you can buy new or 20th-hand, and all from a Rotax driven to a Turbine.

In any case, the Arrow might be a good starting point, if you cannot define the mission yet.

Germany

Luke,

in your initial post you were looking at an attractively prices Bonanza A36? What happened to that? As far as I’ve seen it is still on planecheck.

Bonnies are quite lovely planes and the A36 definitly has the qualities you are looking for.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Mooney_Driver wrote:

. . . Turbo, well, if you are planning to cross the alps regularly, a turbo makes sense. . .

Or regularly flying above the muck at 10,000’/12,000’

Rochester, UK, United Kingdom

Peter_G wrote:

Or regularly flying above the muck at 10,000’/12,000’

Most non turbos have service ceilings at around 17000 ft, even my old 180 hp Mooney. That is usually enough. You yourself are flying non-turbo at up to 20k.

My “beef” with turbos is that it is comparatively easy to break something very expensive. Also, turbo charged engines usually require top overhauls somewhere in between. There are turbos which are quite benign (such as those with automatic wastegates to avoid overboost) and others which are really bitchy when not treated like a raw egg. (the original Mooney 231 was a prime example for that, with the GB engine).

Yes, it can be done and yes, I may be one example who came on a Seneca with two fixed wastegate turbos at 100 hrs, but personally I’ve shied away from them for that reason. Normalizers are a bit more benign, but also they can cause havock, particularly the manual Rajays which need to be de-activated manually, but they are quite rare.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Peter wrote:

The Arrow has been mentioned. Beware – because it is the cheapest retractable and thus attracts owners who have €x and not a penny more. Accordingly, a high % of them are in a poor condition.

Quite a few people run planes on tight budgets. It is another thing though to let the rot or to not do essential maintenance. Old paint or similar does not mean that the plane is technically unsound.

In the end, the pre-buy has to determine what the condition is and if it’s worth looking at or not. How much cash the owner had is only half the story, if that much. I’ve seen much more stingy millionaires than low or middle class folks, yet the latter need to be careful what they spend on their planes lest they find themselfs over budget a sight faster than those who are in the comfortable situation to just pay for annuals e.t.c out of petty cash.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Mooney_Driver wrote:

in your initial post you were looking at an attractively prices Bonanza A36? What happened to that? As far as I’ve seen it is still on planecheck.

Well, two things happened: First, I am waiting for the results of a boroscope inspection of a few cylinders, arranged by another guy being interested in that machine. And then, well, our instructor “happened”. He took out the wind from our sails, basically

Let’s see how that Bonanza will turn out. Maybe we are rushing things too much, and we could indeed wait a bit until the “right” plane pops up. I only feel that that might never be the case once you begin waiting for the right one. Like with woman, indeed hehe

LOWI,LIPB, Italy

Touchée @UdoR yes I did go on to define this year’s mission but the year before last it was very different and for that I would have bought another twin with full IFR capabilities and deicing if I could have found one that suited me at a price I could justify to myself.
It can be tough to find an aircraft that suits all your needs.

France

To cross Alps you need to climb early, any 200hp & Oxygen should do it and you have plenty of time to climb just start it 1h before
To takeoff in 6kft DA altiports you definetly need a Turbo and 150% takeoff distance, with non-turbo you need 350% takeoff distance !

Where the turbo comes handy,
- Punching through freezing layers in 7kft-14kft, having TKS or FIKI does not cut the mustard, but you still need a good SL RoC
- Cruise in FL160 with tailwinds, getting there quickly should make a nice MPG result and save 30% on your fuel wallet

In the other hand there are load of non-turbos with +1.5-2.0kfpm at SL and 0.7-1kfpm at FL120

Last Edited by Ibra at 22 Jun 10:23
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Or regularly flying above the muck at 10,000’/12,000’

You don’t need a turbo for that; a TB20 does 18k-20k (ISA) and doesn’t come with the “top overhaul before 1k hrs” business which almost all turbo engines get.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The flip side, is that a lot new pilots while as there experience increases, their currency actually deteriorates. For some the checklist becomes an instruction list. Not all checklists are fit for purpose (but that’s another topic ). There is nothing wrong with starting with a complex aircraft at any stage as long as your can stay active in the control loop.

Many new students are more than ready to step into a bonanza at 50hrs, some more like a 100 some, some should stick with a something like a C-172.

To step up to a bonanza, your currency should be able demonstrate a baulked landing from late flare competently (it is not difficult) but you should be flying the plane not the other way around. Getting the emergency gear down can be bit stressful in the bonanza/baron, especially at night and its raining hard. You should have a methodical method in the circuit, personally a written checklist single pilot isn’t appropriate here.

it goes a bit quicker of course, if when you reach base and final your always well prepared in your current stead, the increased speed won’t be a problem at all.

Last Edited by Ted at 22 Jun 11:21
Ted
United Kingdom
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