Hello all
I’m considering buying a third of a SR22.
The aircraft is currently owned by two senior pilots (around 70), who had it for the last 10 years. One of them is VFR pilot only. Annual flight time for the aircraft is around 60 hours.
I well know one of them, and what I appreciate in the offer, is :
- the mind state of the owners
- aircraft hangared, on my base (very rare)
- very low use rate
- aircraft fits the mission (150 knots – 4 hour endurance with 250-300 kgs payload – IFR – EFIS – deice – some climb performances) + safety (parachute)
Basic description is :
SR22 built late 2003 (sn around 800)
Airframe is 1100 hrs
Engine is 650 hrs (changed in 2006 following damage. No more information this far).
Prop has been changed 4-5 years ago due to prop strike on landing
Avidyne is version R8.1
Two GNS430
Autopilot S-TEC55X (apparently without FD)
Last parachute repack 2013.
Basic DeIce
No TAWS
ADF (who cares)
Aircraft is in good appearance (some minor paints scratches on the wing tips)
Proposed price is based around 200Ke for total value.
Identified negative points are as follow :
>Parachute repack to be planned in 2023
>Apparently, the GNS430s are non-waas (the pilot I flew with is VFR only, and does not know anything about this. But when checking the procedures available for the airfield in the GNS, I had only “RNAV” procedures and no “LPV”)
>aircraft is N-reg. Currently holding EASA french licences, I will need to convert them if I want to fly out of France (meaning, for the IR part, taking an IR exam in the US).
>aircraft is rarely flown on IFR, so the status of the porous panels and TKS system is to be checked.
What items can you advice me on specific and thorough checking ?
What do you think of the offered price ?
What comes to mind ?
I think a NAVCOM upgrade is necessary if it is confirmed the GNS are non-waas. But from what I saw, garmin does not offer upgrade to the GNS since june 2020. So that would mean finding an occasion GNS430, or switching to GTN650, or IFD440.
An autopilot upgrade to a DFC90 with flight director may be appealing too, depending on the cost.
thank you for your help.
My first red flag would be the prop strike. A Cirrus is fixed gear, so what happened there? What else got damaged? Did the gear collapse? At least here in the US the insurers treat most damage(s) to a Cirrus as a write-off as they cannot be reliably repaired. This directly from the horses’ mouth, the underwriters of the insurance for our club.
Next up would be the extremely low hours for the type. It depends of course if the airplane is flown regularly but on rather short hops or if it sits for months and then taken out for a longer trip.
Engine damage? Better investigate, it would have had to have a rebuild anyway after the prop strike, perhaps that’s the same event.
You are correct, the 430 cannot be upgraded to WAAS anymore, but I don’t know how much of an issue that is in Europe.
thanks.
These are two separate events, cause the engine change is before the current owners (so before 2011) and the prop strike is a few years back from now.
From what the pilot said to me (he was the one involved), the prop strike occured on landing with crosswind. A gust took the aircraft during the flare, and destabilised it.
Damage were only to one blade, but the mechanics and the expert agreed on replacing the whole prop (as it was nearing is calendar limit).
Evidently, I will investigate more closely those events if I follow on with the the intent.
From what I saw on the logbook, the aircraft is flown twice or three time a month, for short local flights, or 2-3 hours roundtrip.
What is the motivation of the two current owners to offer a share precisely now?
From your description the prop strike occurred after the engine change?! Was the engine inspected accordingly? How many hours has it been run since the prop strike? It would be a pain to buy in now and then fund a new engine on top.
It would surprise me if the Avidyne/STEC/dual GNS430 bundle has no flight director, but maybe the FD was indeed optional.
I’d say with the plane‘s damage history, 200k would be the base price if it had a DFC90 (world of difference to Stec) and LPV navigators. 250 with the above and average condition, more only if it’s a one owner miracle plane cleaned more often than flown.
Other than that, finding an option at one‘s base, hangared and with the added benefit of cutting every bill that comes by three is rare, go for it.
A propeller strike requires an engine tear down and inspection, not an overhaul if the engine is low time, but probably having opened it up the log book should show an IRAN for damaged components.
RobertL18C wrote:
A propeller strike requires an engine tear down and inspection, not an overhaul if the engine is low time,
True, but I don’t think there are many instances where you don’t find something once the engine is opened up. In any case, at least with Contis, there are mandatory parts to be replaced after a strike. We had a prop strike last year in our club (C210, IO520) and there’s a whole list of things that must be replaced after a strike. We ended up overhauling the engine.
Snoopy wrote:
What is the motivation of the two current owners to offer a share precisely now?From your description the prop strike occurred after the engine change?! Was the engine inspected accordingly? How many hours has it been run since the prop strike? It would be a pain to buy in now and then fund a new engine on top.
They have no motivation. In fact, they are not looking for a partner.
Few years back, they were 3. The third one stopped flying (age).
Now they are 2, and happy with it, but are opened to any proposition.
They just turned down a proposition from a pilot which has money, but an egoistic and self centered personality.
Regarding the prop strike, from what I heard, everything was done by the book. But of course, this is one of the points which need to be squared.
Snoopy wrote:
It would surprise me if the Avidyne/STEC/dual GNS430 bundle has no flight director, but maybe the FD was indeed optional.
I said that because I thought with the STEC, the Flight director option would necessitate two supplementary pushbuttons near the mag key. But AP was not used on this flight, so I can not say.
Snoopy wrote:
Other than that, finding an option at one‘s base, hangared and with the added benefit of cutting every bill that comes by three is rare, go for it.
Exactly. I had a very interesting offer (economically speaking) for a half of a beautiful SR20, but turned it down cause it is underpowered for my well being, in IMC, near the mountains, but mostly because the aircraft is seating outside all year long.
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, provided you can be sure the engine was properly inspected after the prop strike. Perhaps your offer could have a clawback mechanism for part of the cost if the engine needs to be overhauled in the next x years.
One thing I would look out for is to be sure you, and the two other owners, know how to operate the engine. It is easy to overheat the engine badly.
You really should get the navigators upgraded to WAAS. LPV approaches are more and more common, even here in Europe. Take your co-owners on a flight and show them how wonderful an LPV approach on AP is, they will be amazed.
The FAA IR theory exams are dead easy to study for. And you could probably do an intensive 1 week course in the US and pass the checkride too. There are FAA IR instructors in Europe who can get you prepared, Mark van Niftrik in Holland for example.
Buckerfan wrote:
The FAA IR theory exams are dead easy to study for. And you could probably do an intensive 1 week course in the US and pass the checkride too. There are FAA IR instructors in Europe who can get you prepared, Mark van Niftrik in Holland for example.
thanks for you advice.
I am not scared by the FAA IR TK test. I even started to studied it last year “for fun”.
The most complex part will be to go “stateside” for a few days for the FSDO interview, BFR and IR TK (complex for squeezing it in the job and family schedule, and for the COVID constraints).
Price seems ok but not a bargain for such a SR22 with significant damage history (one engine change and current engine after prop strike). As said before much depends on if the prop strike inspection on engine, engine mount and structure has been done properly at a reputable shop.
Just want to put emphasis on another important fact in this specific case: The contractual situation between the co-owners.
What happens if one of the Co-Owners dies tomorrow (which unfortunately happens with people beyond 70 at higher likelihood)?
Are there clear regulations for that case or is there the possibility that the plane ist grounded indefinitely because the dependents do not agree with what to do? Is there a written right of the remaining Co-owners to take over the shares at determined conditions?
