Diamond DA42-VI as a good Scandiavia / Euro tourer? vs Cirrus SR22?

Welcome on the forum !

Did you check this channel ? link
This swede had a DA42 and traveled around Europe with it. His explanations are great.

If you prefer diesel engines, your choice is limited.
Not sure the DA42 is the best sightseeing plane around, with one big engine close on each side.
It requires the ME rating, and insurance will be expensive for a new pilot.

What is your cabin volume/ useful load requirement ?

@aart and others will know much better than me.

@emir is your man for DA-42. It should be great for Scandinavia with two engines and de-icing! Cirrus is OK, got a de-icing, but flying over cold seas with one engine… Not sure.

I did my whole FAA license and some extensive flying with hundreds of hours in the US on the DA42 VI and DA62. I also flew quite a bit in SR22’s, so here’s my take without being a total expert on those machines:

DA42 are great flying machines, very easy to fly and easy to handle (as long as you’re G1000 proficient), FADEC, Single Power Lever, easy to land etc.. If you’re doing Single Pilot IFR, it’s really great and effortless – also very logical and clean cockpit. But they’re not really spacious. If you’re doing some 2-3 hour trips, fine, but it’s not exactly a very roomy plane. You’re sitting very tight in the cockpit. The canopy is great, wonderful view, hot in the summer and rain gets into the cockpit if you’re getting out while it rains. JET A1 is obviously a big pro factor in Europe. It’s also easy to understand how those machines are built, I’ve had a very extensive oral in the US and they’re very logical – in case something goes wrong, you have a good idea what to do. And the safety of a second engine.

What I also heard (and here you should ask others who actually owned the plane) from the flight school and people who owned it in the US that the maintenance can be very costly. One guy had a used DA42 VI and it costed him 100k$ in 18 months because things broke. (If you’re buying used, it seems to definitely don’t want the old Thielert engines but the upgraded ones. Conversions to VI’s seem to be no problem, flew in a couple of those, but it’s costly.)

Another common problem is the lack of upgradeability of the G1000. Apparently Diamond is now addressing it after all those years, but that can be also very costly.

In the end, as a trainer and tourer I really liked the DA42, not sure whether I wanted to have it as an owner plane – at least not for the price tag.

To be honest, the DA62 is a completely different kind of thing in terms of comfort. The whole cockpit is wayyyy more spacier, it looks much nicer, G1000NXi is a plus (I guess new DA42’s have that as well but as far as I know you can’t upgrade right now). It feels like “a real plane”. Also way less noisier in the cockpit. It’s a great tourer. But as it’s quite a new plane, there aren’t many used planes on the market and one might pose the question whether this plane is worth 1 Mill whereas you can get used Turbine-CabinClass-260kn-Planes like JetProps, TBMs and even Mustangs in that price range (I am aware of the higher cost per hour, training, etc.)

In any case, it’s easy to learn to fly those planes. You have to have a good training regarding OEI, yes, but still – very very easy to fly.

The SR22 (which I only have 50 hours or so on, but on the newest 6 edition) is a different kind of plane. It’s definitely faster, but it’s also louder, a bit roomier than the DA42 but definitely less roomy than the DA62. Cockpit look-and-feel comparable to DA62. It’s very modern, clean, etc. – and also easy to fly but has it quirks (try to start a hot engine on a SR22 for example). Also most landings in the Diamonds are smoother than on SR22. Big plus for the SR22 is that landing on grass is easy and the short field performance is better. I wouldn’t land on grass with the DA42/62 due to the prop clearance which is … tight.

I also do question the future of AVGAS, so that’s what would always stop me from buying a SR22. But still the resale market is good, better than for Diamonds I’d say. Also lots of used DA42 are school planes for multi engine training and not owner planes.

I wouldn’t go too much about fuel efficiency for range, because yes, you can do very long range trips in the DA42/62 but that means sitting for hours and hours in that plane without a toilet, etc. Not sure whether you really want it. And if you fly high speed cruise, you get a bit of range advantage but not much. For me the Cirrus was great and enough regarding range. I’d rather do a stop somewhere for an hour and then continue the trip.

And of course, the old discussion 2 engines vs. 1 engine + chute. Over water and mountains, I’d prefer 2 engines, for everything else the chute. Definitely OEI handling in the Diamond is not complicated, but especially the DA42 isn’t exactly a vertical speed wonder. So if your engine goes out, you land immediately. OEI go arounds in the 42 are always (depending on density) not a super great feeling, DA62 is performing better in that regard.

Did you consider buying a used SR22T G3 for half the price (around 450-500k), see how you like it and maybe resell/upgrade later?

Just my 2 cents without any claim to know-it-all (and without being an owner of one of those).

First of all, you have a bit of a learning curve ahead as a 200 hr PPL. You would really need to go for an IR (and possibly MEP rating). It is recommended to train on the aircraft that you buy. I don’t know if Diamond twins or Cirri are available for training where you live. Further south in Europe there would be, so an ‘intensive’ course somewhere else may be involved.

About 18 years ago I co-owned a SR20, and had about 1000 hrs VFR experience flying in Northern Europe. A few years later I got into a similar situation as you, being able to make a step up to sole ownership of a more capable aircraft. My choice was between the DA42 and the SR22. My requirements then may be a little different than yours and meanwhile both aircraft types have evolved, so let me try and summarize my thinking at that point in time, and take into consideration the actual state of the art of both aircraft types. I will limit myself to the DA42 and not the DA62. If you don’t need the room of a DA62 and good outside views are important to you, the DA62 does not make much sense. I’ve flown the DA62 and can judge.

I was fortunate to have spent many hours in the SR20, but also in the SR22 that a friend owned. So I decided to do some flying in a DA42 before making a choice. That’s vital. You really need to get a good feel of both aircraft. Not to mention your spouse, if that’s what’s applicable in your case!

My thinking on the main factors, not in order of importance, were:

1. Modern aircraft and avionics
2. Range (> 900 NM)
3. Speed (nice to have but not essential)
4. Safety (longer over water crossing would be involved)
5. Visibility (I love views and much of my flying would be just sightseeing)
6. Comfort (both roominess and sound/vibration)
7. Spouse appeal
8. Maintenance facilities, future support

1. Modern aircraft and avionics:
At that time the Diamond came with the G1000, and the GFC700 autopilot and traffic and the second generation Thielert Diesel was in the works for me. The Cirrus had an Avidyne avionics suite, and only a normally aspirated engine was available. No FADEC, nor turbo nor Diesel planned. I therefore preferred the DA42. Secondary was that the Diamond was FIKI and the Cirrus was not. Nowadays of course the situation is different. Both types come with comparable Garmin avionics and are FIKI, and, while no Diesel for the SR22 is expected, at least you can have a turbo.

2. Range:
I thought I would be flying a route of some 800 NM regularly. The DA42 was the only option to do this non-stop. Not the case anymore with the longer legs of the current Cirri.

3. Speed:
The SR22 (typical speed at altitude was then 180 KTAS) was faster than the DA42 (150 KTAS). Wasn’t really a factor for me. Again, the time needed for the long route I would be flying regularly would be less anyway in a DA42, not requiring a stop. Besides, I like flying, so any extra time in the air is fine in most cases. I guess the situation today is that (depending on which SR22 version) there is still a speed difference. 185-190 for the Diamond and 200+ (?) for the Cirrus turbo.

4. Safety:
What does one prefer, the extra engine or the chute. I spent quite some time mulling over it. In my case Med crossings would be the order of the day. Although I believe that the chances of survival of a ditching under a chute are very high (usually no hostile waters, shipping around, good SAR), I still preferred my feet to remain dry, so that was a plus for the Diamond. Of course you need to be current in flying a twin on one engine, so regular training would be essential.

5. Visibility:
The trade-off was between the A-pillars of the Cirrus obstructing the view vs the engines of the Diamond. The Diamond won. I like this unobstructed view forward/sideways. YMMV, try it out.

6. Comfort:
Seats and general feeling of comfort were a little better in the Cirrus with its luxury automobile atmosphere, although the Diamond looked fine. Some may not like the firmer seats of the Diamond. You would really need to try it on a longer trip. A clear plus which was important to me was the sound and vibration level. These two Diesels are a lot smoother than one Conti. It makes a difference on a longer flight.

7. Spouse appeal:
Since my cunning plan was to lure my wife into doing some regular trips with me, this was a factor. I believed I noted some preference for a twin. But regardless, my cunning plan didn’t work out anyway. Why don’t they ever for me?

8. Maintenance facilities, future support
Important.. In my case both Cirrus and Diamond had proper facilities nearby my home base. In the end it was not a factor. That may be very different in Norway.
Both companies looked (and still look) solid enough to prevent ending up with an orphan. The Diesel was a bit of a risk though. In the meantime that risk has gone. The Austro’s are reliable. And so are the Conti/Thielerts. Btw, you may want to consider a used DA42 and spent some money on an upgrade to Thielert 155 HP engines and WAAS and a Garmin GFC autopilot.

When buying a new Diamond, make sure they provide you with engine monitoring software and a cable to connect the aircraft to your laptop for diagnosing so called ECU failures.

I have probably forgotten some things. But no doubt other active forumites will chime in soon.

The DA42 is an exceptional twin in that it is much easier and benign to fly during OEI, really not comparable to classic piston twins. The single (per engine) power levered FADEC helps a lot too. Starting/operating engines is jet like and very enjoyable, just like a modern car, no preheating, no hot starts etc..

Austro Engine Cold Start

Austro Engine “Runup” (ECU Test)

The Cirrus is very comfortable and perhaps also emotionally a bit more appealing (big avgas guzzling conti, esthetic outside lines). I’d consider a 150-250k used Cirrus as a great value personal airplane, but
considering you want to buy new and given the equal cost, I would recommend the DA42. Twin engine and (for IFR) WX-Radar, fuel efficiency and JET-A, it probably is the ideal personal non turbine airplane, especially for Europe.

Diamond just fails to market it as the ultimate Cirrus contender, and aside from multi engine rating and insurance requirements in the US, the 42 would win, in my honest opinion.

Concerning grass: Took the 42 to LIPV many times already, not a problem. As always, grass isn’t grass, ymmv.

“Low time pilot” has a broad meaning, however a Cirrus is probably a bit more tricky in that regard as well.

BerlinFlyer wrote:

nd also easy to fly but has it quirks (try to start a hot engine on a SR22 for example).

As with everything, you need to understand the aircraft systems. I have a process which allows me to start any Cirrus, irrespective of whether SR20, SR22, regardless of whether hot or cold. Usually the reason they don’t start when hot is that the fuel has vaporised in the fuel lines lying above the engine inside the compartment; what is needed to be done is throttle open, mixture to cut off and run the boost pump until the sound of that pump changes notably. What you are doing is forcing cool avgas from the tanks into the system, replacing the airlocks. The sound you hear is from when the pump clears the last bit of air and the pump starts pumping fuel, not vaporised fuel.

Depending on how heat soaked the engine has become, this may take up to 25 seconds. Then throttle cracked, turn over the engine whilst moving mixture to rich. Works every time.

For cold the method is simply mixture rich, throttle cracked, prime until the fuel flow rises, stabilises and falls. Pump to boost. Turn the key. No doubt others have their methods, this has never failed for me.

Snoopy wrote:

“Low time pilot” has a broad meaning, however a Cirrus is probably a bit more tricky in that regard as well.

Why would a Cirrus be “more tricky” – fly it by the numbers, they are a joy to fly. The main difference between (e.g.) a typical 172 or a P28A which people learn on is the fact that the dashboard is lower and you will always fly to the runway with power on but after 5 or six hours transition training, any average pilot will be ok. What needs to be taken into account is the torque when you slam the throttle open – but that’s typically going to be the same with any IO550 powered aircraft.

What we shouldnn’t forget is that buying a Cirrus, even a used Cirrus, would entitle the Op to gain up to 3 days of training with a CSIP to teach him how to handle his new steed, courtesy of Cirrus…..

@Steve6443 I’m not saying it’s impossible to start, I’m just saying in a DA42 you push a button – done.

Why „more tricky“?

It is my observation flying with others that factors such as spring loaded flight controls, engine management (LOP, descend, CHT/TIT values) and tight base to final turns (if required eg due to airspace constraints) are more challenging in a Cirrus than in a 42. How often do you hear a Cirrus REV up high during engine start on your airfield ;) (ok, that applies to all avgas planes).

It’s difficult to generalize based on the „low hour pilot“ term though. My feeling is Diamonds are more benign and forgiving to fly than Cirrus. I do read lots of accident reports in my spare time though.

For the same amount of money I believe the 42 offers a bit more, especially in the context of Europe and AVGAS vs JET A.

I do like both planes and enjoy flying them equally.

Steve6443 wrote:

What we shouldnn’t forget is that buying a Cirrus, even a used Cirrus, would entitle the Op to gain up to 3 days of training with a CSIP to teach him how to handle his new steed, courtesy of Cirrus…..

Not anymore – at least according the Cirrus Europe