Nope just a brand new engine installation with all accessories at 1200hrs!
Probably €150k or more. And even if they extend it to 2000 hrs, it will still be pretty expensive.
It’s not a fair conclusion to sort of say a TB20 and the DA50 can do the same thing which is what they do in the video. I think they speak from a VFR mission perspective, which might lead to that conclusion. The diamond is turbocharged where the TB20 is normal aspirated and will loose its breath quickly at altitude. That means little to a typical VFR mission in Europe, but the turbo is a game changer in IFR flying. Looking at the performance specs for the DA50 it will do a 181 KTAS @FL160 while a TB20 will do 149 KTAS at 12500ft according to POH which is the highest spec cruising in POH. The TB20 will only struggle even more above this attitudes as MP goes down. That’s a huge performance difference – no comparison. The fair comparison is with a turbocharged TB21. POH of TB21 at 17000ft says 175KTS. My TB21 will do 175KTAS @FL200 real world performance . Still the diamond is faster if their numbers are true. The TB21 can go higher though to FL250 no problem, which means a lot in topping bad weather and catching stronger tailwinds. But neither TB20 or TB21 compares with the fact that the DA50 burns Jet fuel. Less of it and cheaper too. But for the price of new DA50 I’d take a used pressurized PA46 any day.
I’ve had my TB20 to FL210, and FL180 is normally readily achieved unless the air is really warm. So this is fine for European IFR if you pick the conditions right. Otherwise, yes, this is correct; a turbo will always win on climb rate, and ultimately the ceiling but you will need a mask (for everyone) for FL250.
What is the Diamond maintenance situation like? Don’t you need to go to a Diamond dealer for most things? I would expect the DA50 to be a nightmare, due to the number of new items.
A turbo not only wins in climb and ceeling – it wins in speed too. And by a large margin with increasing altitude. That makes the DA50 much faster than a TB20 and that again makes a big difference if the aircraft is used for any real travel, which I think is fair to assume with an aircraft of this price. Therefor the statement in the video that they are sort of the same is not fair – especially if they used in IFR missions. As said – if any meaningful comparison should be made with the TB series it should be with TB21.
THY wrote:
A turbo not only wins in climb and ceeling – it wins in speed too. And by a large margin with increasing altitude. That makes the DA50 much faster than a TB20 and that again makes a big difference if the aircraft is used for any real travel, which I think is fair to assume with an aircraft of this price. Therefor the statement in the video that they are sort of the same is not fair – especially if they used in IFR missions. As said – if any meaningful comparison should be made with the TB series it should be with TB21.
http://support.diamond-air.at/fileadmin/uploads/files/after_sales_support/DA50-C/Airplane_Flight_Manual/Basic_Manual/90101e-issue002-complete.pdf
DA50C_flight_manual local copy
Actually, according to this DA50 is closer to TB20, I think.
@Peter might be able to confirm – cruise performance numbers are from page 05-33 (225).
I was expected a 1M$ JetA aircraft from 2020 to be way better in speed & economy than 1990 Avgas burners like 252 TSE & Encores?
These were +200KTAS aircrafts at 12GPH, the Rocket even has 31kft ceiling if anyone is brave to avoid hitting RVSM & UFO up there
If I ever get one it’s because of Avags is no longer on sale, Garmin screens, 5 seats and the bullet proof crash cockpit and zero fire
I was very disapointed with DA50 numbers, they have to sell it for free :)
Arj1. How is it closer? The POH posted in the link indicates the DA50 will do 170KTAS @FL160 ISA at 75%. That is close to TB21 values of 175KTAS @ FL170 also at 75%HP- A TB20 however is not close to these numbers. A TB20 will hit maximum speed around 155KTAS @ FL75-85 at 75%. Any higher and the speed will start to go down as the engine loose power due to falling manifold pressure. Check out the POH of TB20 to see yourself. All non-turbo planes suffer from this. My RV8 will hit maximum speed of 170KTAS at ca FL85 after which the speed bleeds off too. The maximum speed of TB21 BTW is 186.5 KTAS @FL250 according to POH. It’s all a bit on the optimistic side as always with POHs, but the difference is clear. I’m not trying to discount the TB20 it’s just that I don’t see the DA50 and TB20 are as close in performance as the video gives the impression of. At least not for IFR flying. But really neither TB20 or TB21 are in competition with a DA50 for a potential buyer. The first two are long out of production and the latter costing around 1 mil€.
The maximum speed of TB21 BTW is 186.5 KTAS @FL250 according to POH. It’s all a bit on the optimistic side as always with POHs, but the difference is clear.
Unlike other POHs, Diamond’s POHs are always on realistic/pessimistic side and real-life numbers are always better than POH.
Yes Diamond used MTOW for their performance numbers in POH which looks like they did a conservative approach for the values they stated. Here they used 1700kg and post the speed of 181KTAS @ 16000ft ISA. One thing I do wonder is why it looks like the turbo cannot hold pressure above 16000 ft as the speed goes down from that point? I think that’s a shame as it would make it quicker/better if it was faster still all the way to FL200. Now if they made it pressurized to FL250 and had radar it would look much more competitive all together.
THY wrote:
Arj1. How is it closer? The POH posted in the link indicates the DA50 will do 170KTAS @FL160 ISA at 75%. That is close to TB21 values of 175KTAS @ FL170 also at 75%HP- A TB20 however is not close to these numbers. A TB20 will hit maximum speed around 155KTAS @ FL75-85 at 75%.
I remember that Peter was giving some other numbers, like 140KTAS @ 9GPH for TB20?
What I meant was that it consumes the same amount of fuel for the same speed as TB20.
@Peter, would you be to confirm/disprove the numbers?
