Hi chaps:
I’ve finally narrowed in on the type I want to buy. I’ve been and looked at this particular lance, and am about to make an offer on her.
http://www.justplanetrading.com/planes/piper/pa32r-300-lance/n7640f
She is, as you can see 1976 vintage, a bit mixed avionics wise, but looks good for her age.
I saw her yesterday, and noted the following:
EHSI- sandel 3308- working well
Shadin fuel flow/engine monitor- seemed to be working but some missing LED elements
Apollo Mx20 MFD – blue screen of death
nice autopilot stec 55x – went through the manufacturers checks on the ground fine.
weird oddly shaped engine cowling on the left side – almost looks bent out of shape- need to investigate that a lot more.
old transponder
oldish radios
price asked, well lets say its between 54 and 56K
Engine hours seem low since rebuild 2010, prop hours the same
Its on the N reg- I’ve done some reading and will be keeping it on the N reg
insurance was v reasonable- quotes c£1100 for the year, 300 hour pilot and son, 60 hour pilot (seems too cheap but hey ho)
Now, I need your wisdom:
log books seem ok, but searching the NTSB database reveals a piper lance, same tail number having an accident back in 1996, yet I can’t find this in the log books. Could the tail number have been reallocated, or is the same model, same reg proof that it was indeed this aircraft?
new transponder-worth it/cost? The old one seems to work ok and initially it will be VFR, till I complete my CBIR or maybe even FAA IR
mx20 – where to start, can’t find much help on the internet, there than, too old, scrap it.
compressions- all in the low 70s, but looking at last year, they were all 1-2 psi higher then, so lost a bit in a year ?significance- note not flown much in last 12 months
Overall, seems a little “tatty” but is 40 years old, and just had its annual.
Anyone got any good AandP advice for around the UK, pref midlands/oxford but I am happy to travel for the right, reliable, honest guy.
Basically, pull it apart for me, and lets see if we can get some collective wisdom going on the pros and cons of this plane- thank you- Andrew
A search on aviationdb.net on the tail number digs out this
It looks like the same aircraft, S/N 32R-7780069, so if you have logbooks from that era and they don’t mention it, that would be interesting to say the least. Far from the first time that an aircraft is for sale looking for a mug. OTOH it may have been repaired really well. The accident was before it was imported into the UK.
FAA tail numbers can be reallocated (e.g. N700S was both a TBM and a TB20) but in this case the S/N is the same.
To be of any use in Europe it needs Mode S and 8.33 radio(s). In fact without Mode S this type of aircraft may have been a hangar queen so check for extended periods of non-use and discount the engine value accordingly (IO540 overhaul is c. 20k). You can get some idea of the engine by opening the strainer, the oil filter and doing oil analysis but obviously this won’t be any good if the oil was changed just before you bought it.
hi Peter
Yes, thats the NTSB report I found too.
Oil is clean as a whistle- but presumably because it was changed at the annual less than 1 hours flight ago!
I’ll go back over the logbooks and compile a time line to look for missing bits/low hour periods.
Reading that report, Im v concerned re the category of damage- I presume subs=substantial.
How am I going to tell if the repair has been done properly?
How much would this accident affect the scalability of the aircraft – its an oldish accident, but looked serious.
There is a lot about the aircraft I like, but I know if I chose with my heart, my wallet won’t thank me.
I like/trust the seller- seems a decent guy, and planes seem priced to sell, not sit there, but I’ve this nagging doubt I can’t quite articulate.
Thanks again
Andrew
Same tail number might be an indication it is the same plane – same serial# leaves less doubt.
Andrew – I strongly advise you to get a proper pre(purchase survey before putting any monies down.
You need a prebuy by someone familiar with the type.
Never choose just with your heart unless it is a gurl AND you plan to keep your trousers permanently zipped up 
Anyone got any good AandP advice for around the UK, pref midlands/oxford but I am happy to travel for the right, reliable, honest guy.
Sorry, missed this bit.
Shoot me an e-mail Andrew and I’ll be happy to discuss.
Yes- will definitely be getting a pre buy if i decide to go ahead with it, thanks Michael.
Similarly, i’ll contact you by email if i decide to go ahead further with this purchase.
Serial numbers match, so its clearly this aircraft that had the accident.
peter, I used to work at a “special clinic” so agree re repurchase inspections for most things, even significant others.
Lets say pre buy goes OK, what sort of discount would you be looking for, or is the accident a “deal breaker” especially if not referenced in the aircraft logs?
do those compressions worry you? especially the drop?
Would it be worth getting some oil (after its actually flown, of course) and sending it away for analysis- on here- seems to be best if done repeatedly, and you look for a trend, so how useful would a single sampling be?
how about the mx20 – i like the idea of the MFD, but no other experience so worth repairing?
How do I go about getting updates for it, if thats even possible.
I presume the transponder it has is NOT mode s/8.33, so more cost to install, which comes back to what is a reasonable offer for the aircraft?
Apologies for all the questions, but whilst Im good at surgery, i ain’t great at aircraft purchase.
Andrew
do those compressions worry you? especially the drop? Would it be worth getting some oil (after its actually flown, of course) and sending it away for analysis- on here- seems to be best if done repeatedly, and you look for a trend, so how useful would a single sampling be?
how about the mx20 – i like the idea of the MFD, but no other experience so worth repairing? How do I go about getting updates for it, if thats even possible. I presume the transponder it has is NOT mode s/8.33, so more cost to install, which comes back to what is a reasonable offer for the aircraft?
- A couple of psi change is totally insignificant;
- Oil analysis is ONLY worth something (not much in my book) if it is done regularly over long periods;
- I have two MX20s in my Lancair Columbia – they are driven by the GNS430W and the stormscope. I’l be HAPPY to dispose of it for you !
- Transponders are not 8.33 – you are confused wit the VHF//Com and in that case the GNS430 is 8.33
The lowest amount the seller will accept ! 
An MX20 is a good bit of kit and will give you good situational awareness. There should be a fixed price repair; maybe $1k or so. The faulty MFD strongly suggests this was a long abandoned plane. Maybe it did some trips…
Yes, fresh oil is useless for analysis.
Oil analysis is like PSA testing :) 5 means probably nothing but get an MRI. 30 means serious trouble. If half the camshaft is gone, it may be in the strainer and the filter, not in oil analysis. But high metals in the oil can show severe corrosion which can bugger the engine up. The problem is that a lot of people dont want to do this, for fear of what they may find…
